Not all are Idiots

He was slumped in the back of the booth, staring off into space.  Scotty slid into one side and nodded as the waiter held up a coffee pot.  “This is odd, for you.  No comms open?  Not in 20 different conversations and setting times for one interview or another?”

His eyes slowly focused on Scotty and he shook his head.  “There are times when ya needs ta take a break.  I been in the forums discussing the changes to ships that are upcomin and then I went and read something that was linked over to me.  An article on how bad CSM8 was and what CSM9 needs to do to step up to the plate.”

“Bad, were you?  How could they tell?”

“Easy, low voter turnout is obviously due to how bad we were as a group.  Failure to be warlike and antagonistic.  We didn’t latch onto the throats of the devs and growl.  We were reasonable.”  Mike sighed.  “I have been fighting this battle all the way through the election and am continuing it on the forums.  You do not progress if all you do is yell.  The other side just stops listening to you.  The proof of the success is already coming out.  In the next two weeks we have almost a dozen team meetings set up.  This is FAR in excess of previous startups of the council.”

Scotty shrugged.  “So call the guy an idiot and move on.”

Mike started to laugh and the laughter grew until there were tears forming.  “I used that term recently and decided top make sure it meant what I thought it meant.  Do you know what ‘idiot’ once referred to?”

“No, but I get the feeling it is good.”  Scotty smiled.  “Enlighten me.”

An idiot in Athenian democracy was someone who was characterized by self-centeredness and concerned almost exclusively with private—as opposed to public—affairs.[6] Idiocy was the natural state of ignorance into which all persons were born and its opposite, citizenship, was effected through formalized education.[6] In Athenian democracy, idiots were born and citizens were made through education (although citizenship was also largely hereditary). “Idiot” originally referred to “layman, person lacking professional skill”, “person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning”. Declining to take part in public life, such as democratic government of the polis (city state), was considered dishonorable. “Idiots” were seen as having bad judgment in public and political matters. Over time, the term “idiot” shifted away from its original connotation of selfishness and came to refer to individuals with overall bad judgment–individuals who are “stupid” – Wikipedia

“I keep that in the back of my mind before I use that term.”  Mike chuckled.  “And especially when I DO use that term.”

“Why is it I think when you insult a person there are layers of meaning that the victim probably won’t get?”  Scotty grinned.

“You know me too well.  But I should go back and check to see how many good points and how many bad have been made.  Been watching the freighter one.  You get to know some of the folks and when you run stats on the discussion you realize why.”

“What do you mean?”

Mike chuckles.  “Well on that thread there have been a bit over 1400 posts.  250 of them by just two pilots.  Or to put another angle on it . . . care to guess the top two Alliances that have been in on the discussion?”

“Well Goons is easy guess.  Dunno about the second.”

“PL, but Goons have almost tripled PL contributions.  I am not Grr Goons on this.  Matter of fact their involvement precludes me from calling them idiots.  I’ll have ta  come up wit other names.”

“I have faith in you.”  Scotty grinned.



Don’t even try to keep some people happy, it is a fools errand.  But I will continue to be a reasonable man (most times) and talk rationally to CCP.

Source of the critique I was discussing?  Here

Oh stats for forum thread?  I asked Chribba and he showed me where on Eve Search that particular button is and always has been.  (top line of forum thread)  The stats I was looking at are Here

Comment of the past week or two and ones for the coming week are in a draw for a ship.

fly it like you won it.


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13 Responses to Not all are Idiots

  1. Mara Rinn says:

    Once Tippia has posted twice in a thread, it’s dead. Not because the useful discussion has ceased, but because it will end up drowned out by Tippia trolling with word games. Tippia reminds me of the kid at school who spends half of lunch time arguing about whether the ball landing on the line is in or out, rather than just copping an out and letting the game continue (or heading off to debating club where that kind of argument is appreciated).

    Dave Stark is at least amusing.

    But as a rule of thumb, “two Tippias and it’s dead,” has saved me a lot of time on the forums.

  2. Foo says:

    Don’t keep us happy. I consider the post you linked is somewhat sensational, but was publicly worried first (on

    It is only partially sensational. The following link contains the graph of voting by election.

    My questions on a similar vein to that linked post:
    * Does Eve have a 37% fall of it’s most engaged players?
    * What correlation is there between those that vote in an election, and whether they are still subscribed 12 months later. How does this compare with other accounts of a similar age?

    Do *not* tell me the answer. This question should be asked purely under an NDA arrangement. Just ask it.

    Also, there is a huge difference between “You do not progress if all you do is yell.” and never being heard by your voters.

    I understand *NDA*. This is not an excuse to be perceived as CCP fanboys. The NDA is a barrier to your communication with players. With this barrier, your average player (that has even heard of the CSM) will see you as irrelevant, because you don’t interact with them. CSM should make the effort to communicate to their electors despite the NDA, while we still have a CSM.

    I don’t ask that the CSM yell all the time. I do ask that when you yell, you let us know as soon as you possibly can.

    A parting (mostly rhetorical) question: How few voters does the CSM need to have to justify it’s existence?

    • mikeazariah says:

      That last question is a telling one. How few will CCP allow that there was an election at all? But then given that they chose CPM0 and seemed fine with that it may not be the democratic process that is at the heart of what is going on.


    • mikeazariah says:

      Second answers:

      I read your post and enjoyed it, even if I did hardly get a mention.
      Q:* Does Eve have a 37% fall of it’s most engaged players?
      A: Or does it have a fall of 37% in the level of engagement? Take numbers you can see and work with, not the NDA ones. Goons, you can see their population and you can calculate over the past 2 election how many voted the ‘party line’ Has that percentage stayed constant relative to the Goon total of voters?

      Q: I don’t ask that the CSM yell all the time. I do ask that when you yell, you let us know as soon as you possibly can.
      A: Remember ‘reasonable things’? Made it into the minutes and everything. That was us carrying things forward that you could see. Anything I have said I would ‘kick up the ladder’ means I have made sure at least one Dev has had to put up with me explaining/asking. But I don’t yell. As a result I don’t get dragged away by security, muted, or thrown off of the council for inability to work well with others.


  3. foodownunder says:

    On my post : “I have slighted some of you by not mentioning you by name, and my apologies. I just don’t know enough about how you were elected (or not) to add anything meaningful.”

    I will rephrase one of my questions slightly : Q: I do ask that when you yell, you let those that don’t have 130 different eve based RSS feeds know as soon as you possibly can.

    (Aware of the irony of those two statements side by side)

    *I* know what value the CSM provides, and I will be doing some more yelling up to the next election on your behalf. This *should* include more *CSM* did that. It also should include *CSM* stopped something else. It is not (just) what you do but what you are seen to be doing.

    Sure, I want you to be reasonable behind closed doors, but we need more ‘No chairman’ moments.

    But you also can’t please all the players all the time.

    I will do some more research on goonswarm participation once I work out how many *active* players they had at each CSM election.

    On CCP’s reaction to a certain member from another council, … that is a problem. Not the being thrown off part – that is a decision for others with more information.

    What I do know is CCP’s response and that they then moderated it. It has a chilling effect on needed criticism. Player councils that are kept on a leash diminish their effectiveness in the wider player community.

  4. In modern Greek, «ιδιοτική» simply means “private” or “individual”, as in “private parking” (you see signs in Athens saying “ΙΔΙΟΤΙΚΗ PARKING”, which is often good for a laugh); it’s not even an insult in modern usage, just a term of art. If you want to call someone an idiot in modern Greek, the word you use is «ανόητος», literally “unthinking”; that is an insult.

    And it’s an insult that can easily apply even to the people whose civic participation gives the lie to the old meaning of “idiot”; there are plenty of examples of people who do participate but still act like sludge-brained fools.

  5. Von Keigai says:

    Don’t let Gevlon (of all people) get you down. Gevlon is a very intelligent guy, but he lacks any sort of intuitive understanding of how normal people relate and what their motives are. As such, while you can learn a lot him about how to make ISK in EVE, and he has a lot of intellectually stimulating ideas, you should not take seriously anything he says about people. He just does not understand people very well.

  6. Dave Stark says:

    I’ve only got so many posts because people keep posting the same question over and over, and they keep having to be told that the change is happening because people kept asking for it.

    that, and i like to be smug as fuck when i’m right.

    mostly being smug, though.

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