White Power

“You remember me telling you about the questions I was asking of the CSM?”  Mike pulled a chair over to the table where Scotty was sitting with Ev.

“You did say you would get back to me if anybody answered.”  Scotty nodded.

“What this be about, eh?”

“Mike is trying to see if he can make changes or suggestions to the CSM even if nobody ever votes for him.”  Scotty laughed and waved a hand.  “So he writes to all thirteen of the CSM elected and asks them questions.  Last time he asked about the first weeks, this time he is focussing on the White Paper.”

“What be a White Paper, den?”  Ev’s Minmatar heritage was never far from the surface, even if he had been born and bred Gallente.  “Sounds fishy ta me.”

Mike fielded the question.  “It is a combination historical document and . . . well, a constitution, I suppose.  It sets out the reasoning for the existence of the CSM as well as basic ground rules for them to follow in their deliberations.  Thing is, it was written a long time ago and has not been kept up to date.”

“How you supposed to keep a historical document up ta date, then.  If you change it . . . it no be historical.”

“Good point . . . maybe they need to lay this one down and almost start over.  But since I did not want to try writing one just for them too laugh at I decided  to try and work with the  document at hand as a jumping off point and I sent a question or two to each member of the CSM.”

“Any of them willin ta give you the time o’ day?”

“Yes, but not as many as last time, sadly.  But the last to answer last time was the very first to answer this time, Kelduum.”

“He’s that ‘Eve Uni’ guy, right?”  Ev asked. 

“Right, I asked him . . .

In the white paper it suggests that things that are being considered will be labelled ‘marked for consideration’ This way the voting population can weigh in and comment or argue their cases further.

Should this idea be removed from the white paper or better enforced within the CSM and CCP communications

“See, in the old days you knew what the CSM and CCP were talking abot and you could put your own opinion forward to try to sway the council to see things your way.  Now it is all in the election then we know bugger all about what happens the rest of the time until changes are announced.  Not what you call a lot of opportunity for input from the voting public.  Keld answered . . . ”

It would be nice for the CSM to be able to provide a list of topics being covered with CCP at any point, however there will likely be some NDA issues (discussing changes to mechanic X, which influences players expecting specific changes), and the amount of work documenting all the topics covered could easily be a full-time job, so it will likely be one of the elements which is updated significantly.

Obviously its a very fine line between providing information, and providing NDA’d material, and I’m sure as time goes on, the newer CSM members (such as myself) will find the appropriate balance.

“So what is this NDA, then?”

“Secrecy act . . . keep the CSM from spilling beans before their time.  The philosopher Paul Barnett once said that if you even hint at a change there will be barbarians at your gates tomorrow demanding it be released right now and complaining each day that they are denied their inaliable right to whatever they think they heard you think wishfully about.  He’s right.  You Have to keep some secrets becuase a lot of the pilot population is prone to overreact.”

“Next Dovinian answered.  I tweeked him about not running a high profile campaign and he was a it rueful about it . . . but hey, he DID get alected.”

“Unlike some folks we know”  Scotty muttered.

“Right, well him I asked . . . ”

In the paper the method for measuring CSM participation was attendence to meetings. How should the measure be taken with the new CSM format?

There are talkers and there are workers. So far (excluding yourself) who has done the most work?

“If there are no frmal meetings or minutes then how are we supposed to know who did what, if anything.  The last election had a fair share of name calling and accusations but no numbers to back any of those accusations up.  Dovi answered . . . ”

With the CSM having a constant conversation and ability to contact CCP Devs 24/7 (or when they’re around) it’d be very difficult to measure activity in that sense. Through the Skype chats, it’s also very easy to grab a Dev privately and bring your concern up wiht them that way — sometimes that’s a better approach in a few cases.

We have some collaborative tools that we use to work on papers and ideas together, those are really nice because it shows who has made what edits/additions.

He declined to say who worked the least, but that is not what I asked.  He DID say that the veteran members . . .

The people who have been contributing the most are the CSM6 veterans by far though from what I’ve noticed. They’ve really been the heavy hitters this time around.

Mike grinned.  “I like that guy.  He takes pride in what he has done and really seems to care.”  Sighing Mike went on.  “The next question was the hardest for me to ask but it did impinge directly on phrases in the White Paper . . . and how they affected the Mittani.”

“Uh oh”

“Yeah.  See the Mittani was dropped from the CSM becaue of a TOS breach.  To quote the legal findings . . .

Following a thorough internal review CCP has decided to respond to this clear violation of our Terms of Service

The White Paper was very explicit on matters like this.  It says . . .

Breach of the EULA or TOS by a CSM representative is grounds for dismissal and permanent exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council’. There are no exceptions

So I had to ask someone about this and Two-Step drew the short straw.  His response was . . .


Is The Mittani taking part in the alumni skype channel?

Not at the moment. One thing that I would point out is that techincally, the EULA/TOS breach wasn’t considered to have happened while he was on the CSM, which is why he is allowed to run for CSM 8.

Looking forward to going back?

Yes. The only summit I have been to was the emergency summit. I’m looking forward to the chance to do less damage control and more real feedback and brainstorming. Of coruse, I am also looking forward to more Bacon subs from Nonnis.. 🙂

Scotty whistled.  “He is walking the fine line there.”

Mike nodded.  “I wasn’t out to vilify or flog a dead horse further, just pointing out that they may want to remove the ‘No Exceptions’ if they plan on making any.”

“Next up was Aleks Karrde, leader of NOIR.”

“He and his did great work in Jita.”  Ev said grinning.  “Considering the numbers arrayed on each side they were fantastic.”

“Agreed.  Him I asked . . . . ”

Given that you guys have altered the meeting format to now a rolling conversation, as opposed to formal meetings,

Do you think that there needs to be some method put inot place to keep players up to date as to what is going on?

The guidline recommended in the white paper was every other week. Would it be reasonable to ask that we get updates in such a timeframe?

“His response was guarded . . . ”

This is a difficult subject because the rolling conversation almost invariably discusses NDA material. In the case of the CSM/CCP joint channel, the entire thing is NDA protected so devs and CSM can interact freely and frequently.

I’m gonna decline to comment on specific solutions till we have an opportunity to sit down with CCP and collaborate on a solution that allows us to be transparent with players while also preserving the benefits of free, open, and constant communication within the CSM itself and between CSM + the development team.

“But since then it HAS been announced that the CSM will be having a town hall meeting so I suppose that is a huge step forward.”

“Especially if more than one person talks.”  Ev grumbled.

“Especially then.  Trebor I asked . . . ”

There has been suggested that Real Names be removed from the ballots to add a level of anonymity and allow people to campaign without opening themselves up to Real World harassment.

Water under the bridge, of course, for any candidate who has already run.

Where do you stand on this proposal?

“Trebor did nt disappoint me and was as straight forward and common sense as ever. . . .”

I think CSM candidates should have to reveal their identities to the voters.

We are not voting for toons, we are voting for people to represent us to the company. Who those people are in RL has relevance.

“The last word, I leave to the chairman of the CSM who was very busy on many fronts but he still took them time to reply.  I asked Seleene . . .”

Will the CSM white paper make it onto the table as a subject for dsicussion/revision in the upcoming summit?

Would you be interested in hearing the opinions of non-CSM members as to specific parts of the WP that need attending to?

“He kept the answer brief and to the point.

it will be at least Monday before I can give you a more detailed reply than YES and YES. 🙂

“I thanked him for his answer, that was all I really needed and not much more than that.  Now I wish I could listen to the Town Hall meeting live and even ask some question directly but  have other duties.”

“So, is THIS the end f your nagging those poor guys?”

Mike smiled.  “It is, for this month.”



Typed on a tablet so forgive me any formatting issues.

I do wish I could hear the Townhall meeting live but I am on the road right now and umnable to get more than chancy coffee shop level connections or ‘one bar’ of network in a motel.

If any of you DO make it.  Ask questions, thank them for what they have done.  TAKE PART

and fly it like you won it


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6 Responses to White Power

  1. Jerod Trd says:


    Glad to hear you at least got a response out of them.

    Re Mittens, they aren’t walking a fine line, they are rubbing it out for fear of losing thousands of subs should they ban him from future CSM involvement. He may not have been an active member of the CSM at that time, but he had won his seat, been ready to assume his position (the ‘not chairman this time’ line was sour grapes talking methinks) and was talking happily about his time on the CSM last time…. if that doesn’t make you representative of the CSM then I don’t know what else could.

    As for the comment ‘impossible to produce a definite view of who does what’ I can believe that, as too many politicos have marched that line out about trade conferences, G8 and G20 summits, multiparty talks about nukes, and everything else. the large meetings are less about getting things done, and more about finalizing deals that were made long before.

    Good on the CSM Members for getting back to you though.

  2. Noizy says:

    “The philosopher Paul Barnett … ” LOL, I haven’t thought about him in quite awhile.

    The town hall is going to be broadcast on Eve Radio at 1700 GMT today. If they follow practice, it will be up on rewind for a week and ER may put it on their podcast page like they have a couple of the big FunkyBacon shows. But that last is just speculation.

    • mikeazariah says:

      I loved his interview with no prisoners no mercy. That is where he talked about player expectations

  3. artiststechguy says:

    Interesting post as always, love seeing that you are following up with the CSM as otherwise we don’t seem to hear much from them.

  4. mikeazariah says:

    http://media.eve-radio.com/podcast/csm7townhall19-05-2012.mp3 is the recording of their town hall meeting. Thanks to Eve radio . . . so sorry I was travelling all day yesterday


  5. Uskaanax says:

    It’s too bad there’s not a voting process like at http://community.spiceworks.com/feature_request.

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